CEL with very high oil level - Maserati Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 11-26-2016, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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CEL with very high oil level

My 2006 GranSport has a CEL. The oil level is real high on the dipstick. Do I have an oil delivery failure?
I've hardly driven the car since I first got the CEL. It idles alright, sounds ok too. It revs fine, but I don't want to push it. I took it around the block, and if anything, there is some surging in power, like it really wants to go.
With the engine cold and off, the level is a little higher than the MAX reading.
With the engine up to operating temp and idling, it is much higher! There are bubbles on the dipstick too, indicating some turbulence in the tank.
The oil quality looks fine.
Should I limp over to my nearest Advance Auto store to do an analyzer hook-up for fault codes? My dealership is too far away if it's an oil delivery failure.
Thanks for any help!

Last edited by Massa Rati; 11-26-2016 at 09:19 PM.
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post #2 of 19 Old 11-27-2016, 04:15 AM
 
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that is extremely odd that the oil level is higher when running and at operating temperature. getting a read of the codes stored would be a great first start if you feel ok driving there. alternatively, a crappy bottom of the barrel code reader is pretty inexpensive, i got one for the glove box for about 50 bucks.
hows the coolant level?
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post #3 of 19 Old 11-29-2016, 02:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks! I have an inexpensive code reader on-order from Amazon... always wanted one anyway, LOL!!

Any idea where to find the codes for my 2006 GranSport?

I know, I totally didn't expect the oil level to be sky-high! Strange! I changed the oil myself, and was very careful about the level... I did it while the engine was idling.

I'm curious though... is the oil level when shut-down and cold at a little higher than MAX on the dipstick?

From what I gather, the oil pump is a combo water/oil pump? Runs mechanically? From where/what? I could use a good description of it...
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post #4 of 19 Old 11-29-2016, 09:18 PM
 
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it is a mechanically driven oil/water pump. it is on the front right bottom of the motor, running from front to rear. the oil level rises when off because the oil returns to the reservoir. it has no sump/oil pan, all the oil returns to the tank. it is driven by chain from the crank.

the codes pulled by the reader should have a generic description along with the Pxxx designation. generic descriptions are usually pretty close to what the manufacturer's description is, but if you post them up here, i can let you know for certain.
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post #5 of 19 Old 11-30-2016, 02:29 AM
 
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I have an 05 coupe gt the oil level does the same thing on mine it seems a little backwards to me compared to my other vehicles but apparently that's normal. Sense you didn't say anything about your oil pressure I take it it's OK If your oil pressure is good I don't think you have an oil delivery problem if you did you would have found out on your drive around the block and we would be having a completely different conversation about that.
How much oil did you put in the reservoir? was it the exact amount the manual called for? If you put the exact amount in as called for in the manual I wouldn't worry about it, check it after it's been sitting on a level surface over night and there's your mark.
The manual says to check the oil level when the engine is hot at idle I've never had any luck getting a good reading that way the oil always rises up the stick when idling and bubbles up pretty good making it very hard to get a clear read on the level.
A couple of friends of my mine have GS and there's are the same way. I just keep mine at the mid level on the stick between the high and low mark when it's cold and it's fine never gives me any problems has good oil pressure no rattles in the overhead.
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post #6 of 19 Old 11-30-2016, 06:23 AM
 
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The GranSport engine oil should be checked when the engine is running AND hot!!!

It is imperative NOT to have more oil than the MAX, because that will cause serious damage to the engine. If the engine is not running, then you will get a false reading, because the oil will flow down without pressure and you'll get a reading that shows less oil than you actually have. This is not a porsche engine, it does not "eat" oil by the mile, so a healthy GranSport engine should NOT need "extra" oil on top. It is highly suggested, to change oil every 5000km or so, to avoid any variator damage.

You've been warned.

--

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig, you get dirty; and besides, the pig likes it.
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post #7 of 19 Old 12-01-2016, 03:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Maserati Blue View Post
The GranSport engine oil should be checked when the engine is running AND hot!!!

It is imperative NOT to have more oil than the MAX, because that will cause serious damage to the engine. If the engine is not running, then you will get a false reading, because the oil will flow down without pressure and you'll get a reading that shows less oil than you actually have. This is not a porsche engine, it does not "eat" oil by the mile, so a healthy GranSport engine should NOT need "extra" oil on top. It is highly suggested, to change oil every 5000km or so, to avoid any variator damage.

You've been warned.
he already stated that the oil level is higher than max when running and at operating temperature.
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post #8 of 19 Old 12-02-2016, 05:31 AM Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, I was very careful to get the level perfect when I changed the oil & filter a couple of months ago. This car is hardly ever driven, so, it was only 100 or 200 miles ago.
Now, I have a CEL. A typical thing to check when you get a CEL is the oil level, to see if it's too low. Much to my surprise, the level, while idling and hot, is very much too high! So now, I'm trying to determine why, and how? And does it have anything to do with the CEL? How can it be too high??? I can only surmise that I totally botched the oil fill, but that is really hard to believe, because I'm a mechanical design engineer, and I was being very careful to get it just right, topping it off of course while the engine was idling and fairly hot. So, I'm really puzzled how it got much too high!!
And yes, the pressure gauge shows a very healthy oil pressure. So, the pump must be ok.
When my OBDII reader gets here, I'll know what the fault codes are, and go from there. And evidently I need to drain the excess oil. Very strange.
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post #9 of 19 Old 12-02-2016, 06:35 PM
 
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sc00b is correct in you should never over fill the reservoir, and I am in no way disagreeing with what he says about over filling or anything else he's said. He's absolutely dead on.

Sense you just changed the oil and if you put in the exact amount of oil in the reservoir called for in the manual as I said I don't think you have anything to worry about. I'm not a Maserati mechanic but unless the engine is loosing anti freeze internally and mixing with the oil or you have an injector just dumping fuel into a cylinder and mixing in with the oil in your engine your oil level is not going to just go up, if one of those two things are happening then your oil level will start rising up but you'll notice the smell of gas or your oil will start having a milky substance on the oil fill cap and dip stick. If ether of those things were to happen by the way that's a fix right away thing or most likely you'll ruin the engine.

Sometimes you just have to use common sense, If you put the exact amount of oil in it's going to be correct. As I said mine does the same thing as well as several of my friends cars too, I stopped worrying about it when I changed the oil and put in the exact amount of oil that's called for in the manual and every time I checked it sitting in the garage cold the oil showed at the mid level between high a low and when I warmed it up it would always show over the max mark on the stick a lot over like a 1/2" but it's so bubbly when it's running I swear it never seems the same.
Unless the manual is incorrect and is calling for the wrong amount of oil mine should be fine as it is. If I'm wrong on this I would love to be schooled about this.

sc00b I thought I read something about replacing some kind of check valve and spring for the oil supply for the variators do you know anything about that? Have you replaced yours? Just wondering if I should replace mine what do you think.
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post #10 of 19 Old 12-02-2016, 10:03 PM
 
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Sounds to me that you may have overfilled your oil and this is shown when the car is at normal operating temp. You say it is over max which it should not be. It should be between min and max at normal op temp. If it is over you run the risk of maf damage which can cause odd surges in power hard starting and other weird problems. There are threads on here on how to check and clean the maf sensor. First thing I would do is get the oil level 100 % right.
When you said you changed the oil and you got the level 100% right, was this with the engine hot? If not it is a simple mistake that can be costly, chances are you have only lugged up your mass air flow sensor. Fingers crossed.
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post #11 of 19 Old 12-11-2016, 08:30 PM

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Grasping at straws with what has already been said, and very respectfully submitted, could quarts and liters gotten mixed up somehow? 1 US quart = 0.95 liter or 1 liter = 1.06 US quarts If fill specs are given in liters and if quarts were confused for liters, you would have an UNDERfill situation and no real problem. But if liters were confused for quarts, you would have an OVERfill situation.

Still further out on the fringe, could oil be bypassing the oil filter because of some type of blockage, so that when you take a measurement, the amount of oil that is supposed to be inside the oil filter isn't?

Afraid that's all I have to offer.

KTBD

Keep the Rev's Up...
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post #12 of 19 Old 12-20-2016, 02:23 AM Thread Starter
 
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Ok, I'm back... sorry for the delay... I finally got my handy dandy code reader!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It says, my one and only fault is:
P0491
Secondary Air System (Bank 1)

Is that the mass air flow sensor? If so, will it be ok after I reduce the oil level? The car has been hibernating. I'm not driving it until I do this...

As for the quantity of oil that I put in at oil change, I sneek-up and get the level just right, not the amount given in the manual. It was about the same though, I think. The oil is Mobil 1 0W-40 And the new filter is a Maserati Purflux #188 814.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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post #13 of 19 Old 12-20-2016, 02:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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I found this thread here about P0491:
Check Engine - P0491

I have not yet ruled out the possibility of a malfunctioning MAF sensor due to the too-high oil level. Anybody here know enough to make an educated conclusion?
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-21-2016, 10:30 PM
 
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The P0491 fault code has nothing to do with the air mass meter or oil level....totally separate systems...Jason

ASE Master Tech. 28 years experience
Guru in Atlanta of Jaguar V12 & XJS cars.
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post #15 of 19 Old 12-22-2016, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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OK, thanks, that's good to know!

Now, could you tell me what it is, and how to correct the problem? The other thread seems to conclude that it's a firmware glitch which is fixed with a firmware update... and no further info was given...

Thanks again,
Bill
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