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post #1 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 12:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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Unhappy Impossible problem

My 2007 gransport has repeatedly experienced an engine cut out which nobody can seem to solve.
Typically I will start driving to work and be in slow traffic and will notice that suddenly the power steering has gone and the voltage light has come on indicating that the Engine has cut out . The engine light does not come on nor are there any warning lights on the dash . The electricals keep functioning the radio is playing fine and there is no jerk that you would get with a typical stall . If I switch off and then restart the car everything is fine .The computer check from the mechanic is unable to show any error . The petrol tank is full , the clutch is only 25% worn and there is a new battery . The electricals are fine and it is an engine cut out rather than stall.

It only ever happens in the morning in heavy traffic when the car is in second gear and moving very slowly. The thing is that it will only happen about one in every 20 trips and for the life of me I cannot make it do it it just happens randomly and has happened about 10 times now .

My mechanic is a very experienced Ferrari Maserati independent specialist and is unable to work it out I left the car with them for a week and it was fine and continued to be fine for a couple of weeks after that until again doing it this morning.

It is a scary experience because even though I am inching along slowly it is still in heavy traffic and to suddenly lose the engine and power steering and breaking makes the car very hard to control . Again switching off and restarting the car is perfectly fine and seems to be fine in the same conditions for at least a week or two before it does it again .

Any thoughts anybody ?..l
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post #2 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 11:33 AM
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Im wandering if theres a loose wire somewhere
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post #3 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 01:21 PM
 
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Ok, spoke with my friend who is the Master Maserati Service Tech for the UK:

"The clutch is wrongly set , it sounds like it is not set at 5.1 and if they does not resolve the problem then he will need to replace the movement sensor in the bell housing."

And come to think of it my GS had the similar problem that he sorted out for me. Hope that helps!
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post #4 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 03:30 PM
 
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Wow, if the CC can randomly shut the car down then how is that different from GM's ignition switch fiasco and recalls? Random problems are difficult to troubleshoot but if the car will immediately restart and run OK then my guess would be something in the ECU or TCU software. Physical things that fail tend to stay failed.
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post #5 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 03:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Tony H View Post
Wow, if the CC can randomly shut the car down then how is that different from GM's ignition switch fiasco and recalls? Random problems are difficult to troubleshoot but if the car will immediately restart and run OK then my guess would be something in the ECU or TCU software. Physical things that fail tend to stay failed.
This guy knows his st*t so get it checked out....
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post #6 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 05:54 PM
 
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This guy knows his st*t so get it checked out....
OK, so some guy knows something about something so we should do something. Thanks, very useful.
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post #7 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 06:07 PM
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This guy knows his st*t so get it checked out....
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OK, so some guy knows something about something so we should do something. Thanks, very useful.
Before this goes bad, let's throttle back a little.

The clutch position sensor is a hall effect sensor that's very sensitive. If the computers don't know where the clutch is or if it senses that it is out of position, it can shut down the car. It hasn't failed, or the car wouldn't start at all. It should be checked out for signal integrity. This is no different than the myriad of sensors on all modern cars that can shut down the engine and it isn't a fleet-wide failure issue.

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post #8 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 06:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lcdave View Post
Before this goes bad, let's throttle back a little.

The clutch position sensor is a hall effect sensor that's very sensitive. If the computers don't know where the clutch is or if it senses that it is out of position, it can shut down the car. It hasn't failed, or the car wouldn't start at all. It should be checked out for signal integrity. This is no different than the myriad of sensors on all modern cars that can shut down the engine and it isn't a fleet-wide failure issue.
IcDave,

Thanks for your intelligent comment we need more of those on thread.

My contact is the Maserati Service Dealer from the UK and customers would come from Continental Europe to have their cars serviced including me. He is excellent and knows the GS inside and out.
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post #9 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 06:45 PM
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1.) Your KISS point/ PIS shouldn't randomly shut the car down. Additionally, 5.1mm is almost the max for these F1 cars you'd want to have it at. I've set them as low as 3.6-7, every car is different. No offense that's incorrect information. The car isn't going to start shutting down based off of the PIS set. What it could do is if you switch to neutral when the friction discs are heat soak, it won't go back into gear. If it's set too low it could also present in having really jerking clutch engagement after it's heat soaked. Basically sitting in traffic for a while on/off the clutch heats the friction discs, and you get thermal expansion. What it won't do based off of PIS alone is kill the car.

2.) Though I'm not totally disagreeing the F1 position sensor could randomly kill the car. I find it odd there's no gear box codes stored for it, or it's hard to replicate. What I mean is normally if it's an issue like this it won't start right back up. When you go to start it the F1 light will come on, or when it dies has the CC light/audible beep, and you'd need a slight cool down period. It definitely is a hall effect sensor like Dave described. But the fact the OP hasn't mentioned once the F1 light, or CC light being illuminated, and coupled with the fact according to the Ferrari Tech pulled no codes from the NCR I have my doubts.

Obviously that's all they are is doubts or observation from behind a computer because we don't have the car here. That being stated how are we assuming it is just a gearbox related issue? Another hall effect sensor that can cause random engine shut offs with no warning is the crank position sensor. The brake pedal switch can also kill the car. A faulty NCR. Wiring issues as has been mentioned, maybe a ground. I've seen rodent damage in the winter time. What I can say, or caution is, I've yet known a mechanic/technician that can diagnose from on-line. I'm not sure where the OP lives but unfortunately whoever works on it will need to replicate the issue as the OP has experienced it.

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Last edited by Craig; 02-15-2017 at 11:01 PM.
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post #10 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 07:23 PM
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1.) Your KISS point/ PIS shouldn't randomly shut the car down. Additionally, 5.1mm is almost the max for these F1 cars you'd want to have it at. I've set them as low as 3.6-7, every car is different. No offense that's incorrect information. The car isn't going to start shutting down based off of the PIS set. What it could do is if you switch to neutral when the friction discs are heat soak, it won't go back into gear. If it's set too low it could also present in having really jerking clutch engagement after it's heat soaked. Basically sitting in traffic for a while on/off the clutch heats the friction discs, and you get thermal expansion. What it won't do based off of PIS alone is kill the car.

2.) Though I'm not totally disagreeing the F1 position sensor could randomly kill the car. I find it odd there's no gear box codes stored for it, or it's hard to replicate. What I mean is normally if it's an issue like this it won't start right back up. When you go to start it the F1 light will come on, or when it dies has the CC light/audible beep, and you'd need a slight cool down period. It definitely is a hall effect sensor like Dave described. But the fact the OP hasn't mentioned once the F1 light, or CC light being illuminated, and coupled with the fact according to the Ferrari Tech pulled no codes from the NCR I have my doubts.

Obviously that's all they are is doubts or observation from behind a computer because we don't have the car here. That being stated how are we assuming it is just a gearbox related issue? Another hall effect sensor that can cause random engine shut offs with no warning is the crank position sensor. The brake pedal switch can also kill the car. A faulty NCR. Wiring issues as has been mentioned, maybe a ground. I've seen rodent damage in the winter times. What I can say, or caution is, I've yet known a mechanic/technician that can diagnose from on-line. I'm not sure where the OP lives but unfortunately whoever works on it will need to replicate the issue as the OP has experienced it.
What he said

Although I would think a wonky crank sensor would also have a code, would it be possible to verify signal strength and stability on an oscilloscope?

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post #11 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 07:29 PM
 
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I'll throw my amateur opinion into the ring (although it should not be taken with the level of authority as that from Craig of lcDave). This sounds very similar to the MAF issues I had when I first purchased my car. Slow speed, low gear, low revs, engine would just cut out.

I cleaned the sensor with some MAF cleaner from an auto parts store and have not had a problem since (although I did purchase a replacement MAF in case it pops up again)
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post #12 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 08:00 PM
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I'll throw my amateur opinion into the ring (although it should not be taken with the level of authority as that from Craig of lcDave). This sounds very similar to the MAF issues I had when I first purchased my car. Slow speed, low gear, low revs, engine would just cut out.

I cleaned the sensor with some MAF cleaner from an auto parts store and have not had a problem since (although I did purchase a replacement MAF in case it pops up again)
Not a bad thought (especially as it's extremely easy and cheap to clean), but I would expect a MAF issue to throw a code &/or be duplicable. As this seems very random, IMHO we are looking for something that's on the margins, but not failed or providing an unreasonable range that one of the computers would detect as a fault. This acts more like the car is getting a reasonable command to stop or, for reasons that can't be duplicated, failing to maintain idle. The fact that the OP doesn't talk about very slow idle before stoppage and that it starts and runs correctly largely rules out things that would repeatedly cause bad behavior (like temp related issues).

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post #13 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 08:07 PM
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No codes being thrown is why i thought of a loose connection..But what do i know im just a parts cleaner haha...I hope you get it sorted out
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post #14 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 08:43 PM
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No codes being thrown is why i thought of a loose connection..But what do i know im just a parts cleaner haha...
That's why you're the Don Lorenzo of MaseratiLife!

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post #15 of 47 Old 02-15-2017, 09:02 PM
 
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Not a bad thought (especially as it's extremely easy and cheap to clean), but I would expect a MAF issue to throw a code &/or be duplicable.
I would have thought the same, however, I personally never got a code and I even scanned to check for anything that was recorded but didn't throw an CEL. It is something worth spending $7 & 20 minutes to potentially rule out.
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