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06 QP F1 Slips to Neutral


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  #16  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:51 PM
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If you are popping into neutral you should have the system read with an SD2/3 to determine the actual wear.

You may be on the edge of a clutch replacement!

This is a characteristic Ferrari F1 problem when the clutch is near the end of its life!
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  #17  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCalo View Post
If you are popping into neutral you should have the system read with an SD2/3 to determine the actual wear.

You may be on the edge of a clutch replacement!

This is a characteristic Ferrari F1 problem when the clutch is near the end of its life!
I'm starting to wonder about the abilities of my local dealer. They claim to have run an SD3 diagnostic and didn't see an issue. I'm taking it back tomorrow; asking them specifically to check trans-health and adjustments using the SD3.

I've just received another recommendation from Daniel at Ricambi America. He suggests starting with the F1 sensor on the gearbox (apparently external compared to my f355 internal configuration). He says he's sold 6 of them for QP Duos this year (if that's any testament to their reliability) where the cars were slipping into neutral.

Thanks,

Nick
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  #18  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:55 PM
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Daniel is a good guy regardless of what anyone says.

Try that and if not take the winter vaction $ and reapportion to a new clutch!

How many miles?
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  #19  
Old 11-17-2008, 12:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by GCalo View Post
Daniel is a good guy regardless of what anyone says.

Try that and if not take the winter vaction $ and reapportion to a new clutch!

How many miles?
I have 24,541 miles on the car/clutch. There's no slipping, it pulls very strong, and the dealer claims that I have 50% life (checked at 21,000 miles).

Tomorrow I'm going to have the dealer replace the sensor and recalibrate everything. My f355 gave me a fit for a long time with a flashing f1 indicator and dropping to neutral whenever I drove in stop and go traffic. Driving at a constant rate and the car was fine. Turned out the release bearing was leaking clutch fluid, fouling the f1 sensor and causing it to error. When traveling at a constant rate of speed, the rotating mass blew the sensor clean which is why the car drove fine. Once I'd determined that I had an internal fluid leak, I could've just replaced the leaky bearing and cleaned the sensor; but I opted to change the entire clutch assembly.

If after the sensor replacement and recalibration the problem persists, I'll just replace the clutch assembly.

Thanks,

Nick
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  #20  
Old 11-17-2008, 02:13 AM
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All great points you have brought up, and I sincerely hope it's the sensor.

If the clutch needs replacement make sure to check with Daniel about a Hill Eng. T/O bearing. That's a must if Paul Hill makes one for the QP.

Keep us posted.
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  #21  
Old 11-17-2008, 02:59 PM
 
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Gen, It sounds like the F1 actuator is out of center. The ACTUATOR is the mechanical assembly that engages the gear selected. First and second gear are on the same shaft with a common syncro, third-fourth, fifth-sixth, so I see why engagemnet from a different shaft to second would pose a problem and not first to second, the actuator is already in line for first-second engagement.The actuator has two potentiometer sensors to monitor shaft movement and if the movement is there but the gear does not engage it will default to neutral, also going into fifth gear is a default mode for missed engagement. I have seen this enough to put that first on the diagnostic hit list. They can test engagement with their SD3 tester, they should repeat the test several (a dozen or so) times to verify that the engagement centering is absolutely correct. There will also be Diagnostic trouble codes (DTC's) to correlate with the symptoms stored in the Trans control unit (TCU). The DTC's will read something like "opposite gear engagement", "gear engagement with wrong shifts" and or "gear release failed", any of these indicate the actuator being off center and needing adjustment.
If it were the clutch position sensor, the symptoms would be more erratic and not happen at the same time every time.Rarely do electrical problems repeat symptoms the exact way each time. If the sensor IS changed however, replace the clutch at the same time, especially under warranty,
you will save clutch labor charges, both are in the bellhousing. Hope this helps, best of luck.
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  #22  
Old 11-17-2008, 11:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Kent Woodworth View Post
The DTC's will read something like "gear engagement with wrong shifts"
Kent hit it dead-on-the-head! Last week the dealer told me they read no codes. So today I explained thoroughly that the issue was only with 3rd to 2nd and how big of an issue this was; especially with my wife driving. While they were working on my car, I saw Kent's post and showed it to them. How about they read a TCU code along the lines of "wrong shifts"!

They called some Maserati NA guy named Sean Lee who confirmed that realignment was necessary. they ran two software routines on the TCU and now I have no issue! IN addition to the missshifts being resolved, gear engagement is much improved, take offs don't "lurch" anymore, and the trans will actually downshift when starting an incline where before you had to force a downshift (either with the paddles or by WOT). Also, the trans doesn't shift so soon anymore; but rather it holds gears a little longer.

Thanks to all that chimed in on my situation. Thanks, Kent, for the clues that lead the techs to my resolution.

--Nick
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  #23  
Old 07-13-2009, 01:52 AM
 
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Well, after that issue was resolved, the car put me out with a flashing f1 indicator. While cruising, the car stalled twice and then shut off (scary). The car had power, but would not start.

So, the car was towed to the dealer where the next day it was determined that the f1 sensor had failed. In addition, it was time for a new clutch (lucky to have gotten 31,000 miles out of it). While repairing the f1 issue, they noticed leaking oil from the timing cover as well as the lower engine cover, two busted motor mounts and worn suspension ball joints.

They pulled the engine for the oil seal and motor mount repairs. The suspension issue turned out to be a recall item. In addition, the replaced some suspension related wiring harnesses due to recall data as well.

They had the car for 5 weeks!! Wow!


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  #24  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:21 PM
 
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Default 31,000 on clutch

you had mentioned on a previous post that your wife drives the car most of the time and always in auto-mode...

Out of curiousity, how many miles would you estimate were driven in auto-mode rather than using the paddles? I am asking because many posts suggest to drive the car in manual-mode with the paddles (and to avoid auto-mode) to preserve clutch life. I will be pleased to hear that a car driven in auto-mode had a clutch with a normal/average 25k life-expectancy.

thanks in advance~
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  #25  
Old 07-14-2009, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwagen27 View Post
Out of curiousity, how many miles would you estimate were driven in auto-mode rather than using the paddles? I am asking because many posts suggest to drive the car in manual-mode with the paddles (and to avoid auto-mode) to preserve clutch life. I will be pleased to hear that a car driven in auto-mode had a clutch with a normal/average 25k life-expectancy.
It should be noted that miles are a horrible metric for clutch life (for both F1 and 6MT cars). Number of launches from a standstill is a much better gauge.

The very best thing you can do to get lots of miles between clutches is to take super long roadtrips on highways and only shift out of 6th when you need to stop for gas. Use this model and you could probably cause less clutch wear in 3,000 miles than most people put on during a 20 mile drive in a city. Auto mode or not, miles alone will not tell you much.


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  #26  
Old 07-14-2009, 11:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwagen27 View Post
you had mentioned on a previous post that your wife drives the car most of the time and always in auto-mode...

Out of curiousity, how many miles would you estimate were driven in auto-mode rather than using the paddles?

thanks in advance~
Although you can't judge solely by what I say, my wife drove the car (on this clutch) for right at 10,000 miles in auto mode; 90% stop and go city driving. She never, however, performed hard-starts, so this may have helped with clutch life in auto. The other 5,000 miles in this clutch-life were mine, sport-mode, manual, many hard-starts and rev-launches

On the current clutch, there's about 8,000 miles. This time, all sport-mode, manual, still many hard-starts, high-revs, and a few rev-launches

As far as the f1 sensor failure; well.... who knows? I doubt the mode of driving should have anything to do with f1 sensor life.

--Nick


'97 M3
'98 F355 Spider
'05 612 Scaglietti
'07 Camry Hybrid ( for mom )
'07 M5
'09 QP S
'09 M3 DCT
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