Misfires P0300 to 308 + P0040 P1556 P2097 P2099 P2177 - Maserati Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 122 Old 11-28-2013, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
 
ecarca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Maserati Life Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Misfires P0300 to 308 + P0040 P1556 P2097 P2099 P2177

So I'm starting a new thread for this because I guess it's time to dig deeper in this issue.

Symptoms: idle ok, might be slightly rough but really slightly. If the car is cold and you press the throttle slightly, it will be kind of stutter-ish. This situation happens also while driving under 2000 rpm. When the car is warm, there is no apparent loss of power and the problem seems at least attenuated if not gone.

DTC's:
  • Multiple misfires and misfires on each cylinders: P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0305, P0306, P0307, P0308
  • P0040: O2 Sensor Signals Swapped Bank 1 Sensor 1/Bank 2 Sensor 1
  • P1556: Fault at empty fuel tank/air injection sys
  • P2097: Post Catalyst Fuel Trim System Too Rich Bank 1
  • P2099: Post Catalyst Fuel Trim System Too Rich Bank 2
  • P2177: System Too Lean Off Idle Bank 1

Note: these codes were not pulled together at the same time. The misfires are almost always here, the others take time to come. Yesterday, after the plugs change I only had P0300 to P0304. Today I had the rest of the P030X, and the P0040 and P2099 for the first time. Ther rest were pulled and cleared before.

What was done or checked: fresh service, spark plugs changed, dealership supposedly checked cats, vacuum leaks and fuel pumps, clutch. They put the problem on bad fuel quality (supposedly used by the previous owner) and average condition spark plugs, which obviously sounds like easy scapegoats and said it was not a big issue.

In my opinion and from my research it can be:

1. Faulty O2 sensors. Mostly the wide band ones (first ones) but it could be the 4 of them.
2. Catalytic converters (maybe they did not check it that well or at all).
3. Dirty injectors are not to be excluded but I don't really think it's the problem.

It seems very similar to the problem George has, Tubber had before. From the forum literature and Internet research, these 3 possible causes are the favored options.

If you guys have comments, experience or else, it would surely help me a lot.

I hope to solve my issue and post the results here so that potential future candidates for the same failure find their answer quick and easy

2005 GranSport
ecarca is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 122 Old 11-28-2013, 02:59 PM
Supporting Member

InnerCircle
 
Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Maserati Life Posts: 2,283
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
I'm just curious what was the fuel rail pressure when you checked it?

craig-waterman.com
Craig is online now  
post #3 of 122 Old 11-28-2013, 05:25 PM
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Lorenz-06MT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sarasota fl.
Maserati Life Posts: 4,099
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to Lorenz-06MT
There r coil pack testers that u just lay on the top of the coil pack and u can see the firing of the cylinder. They work pretty good. I think ur issue is deeper than that tho
Lorenz-06MT is online now  
 
post #4 of 122 Old 11-29-2013, 01:30 AM Thread Starter
 
ecarca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Maserati Life Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Hi Craig no idea... the dealer said they did it and no problem.

2005 GranSport
ecarca is offline  
post #5 of 122 Old 11-29-2013, 06:34 AM Thread Starter
 
ecarca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Maserati Life Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I don't think the coil packs are he culprit Lorenz.

They were probably troubleshooted before since I found 2 in a manufacturer's box in the trunk when I purchased the car.

For me again: cats or O2. I think I don't have much other choice than purchasing 2 New O2 sensors (wideband ones - the firsts) and replace the existing ones. Worst case scenario, I could always resell mine if the problem is not there…

I might as well purchase 2 universal high flow primary cats and have these welded when I put the rest of the exhaust I ordered from Fabspeed...

If I check Tubber's thread, he says the problem is different or he might have had extra ones but the symptoms and codes are very similar. They changed cats in between others and I suspect they changed the O2, which in his case probably and in mine are likely the culprits.

This said, if someone has a good idea to help me to pinpoint it beforehand, I am a taker

2005 GranSport
ecarca is offline  
post #6 of 122 Old 11-29-2013, 02:27 PM
Sponsor
Sponsor
 
Lorenz-06MT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sarasota fl.
Maserati Life Posts: 4,099
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to Lorenz-06MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecarca View Post
I don't think the coil packs are he culprit Lorenz.

They were probably troubleshooted before since I found 2 in a manufacturer's box in the trunk when I purchased the car.

For me again: cats or O2. I think I don't have much other choice than purchasing 2 New O2 sensors (wideband ones - the firsts) and replace the existing ones. Worst case scenario, I could always resell mine if the problem is not there…

I might as well purchase 2 universal high flow primary cats and have these welded when I put the rest of the exhaust I ordered from Fabspeed...

If I check Tubber's thread, he says the problem is different or he might have had extra ones but the symptoms and codes are very similar. They changed cats in between others and I suspect they changed the O2, which in his case probably and in mine are likely the culprits.

This said, if someone has a good idea to help me to pinpoint it beforehand, I am a taker
Id double chexk the wiring on the sensors. Then,It may be worth it to to swap 02 sensors and read the codes again to see if any codes have changed.
Lorenz-06MT is online now  
post #7 of 122 Old 11-29-2013, 03:43 PM
Moderator
 
TravisJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Maserati Life Posts: 5,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
No need to guess if you think it is the cats. Just ask the dealer to do a visual inspection of the precats using a boroscope.

https://www.instagram.com/revtravis/

(SOLD) 2004 Coupe Cambiocorsa, Rosso Mondiale/Nero
Larini mufflers & X-pipe, Sport cats, FD sport springs, FD DBWEM, BMC air filter, FD brake pads
TravisJ is offline  
post #8 of 122 Old 11-29-2013, 04:36 PM
Supporting Member

InnerCircle
 
Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Maserati Life Posts: 2,283
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
I agree with Travis and I think the chances of all of your coils mis-firing are very slim though Lorenz is correct there is great technology available to diagnose coil problems. Sometimes I really wish I lived close to some of you guys, like Tubber's issues, though some of them are complex, I have a heart for saving money and not seeing someone hand over their life savings to fix these cars. You'll have to forgive me for not logging on as often as I used to. I have completely lost my mind over this Jeep Wrangler I am building. I painted it more times then I would like to admit because I'm adding something I wanted or dumb stuff like that. I clear coated all of the "5.7 liter" decals into the paint and now I decided to pull the motor, and put in a built 383, so I had to put 6.2 liter decals on it and clear coat them in. The interior I ordered all Dakota Digital instrument gauges for the dash so the entire dash will be Digital and it will be blue in color. My point to this is because I am so focused on this I rarely have to time to get on here to problem solve with you guys.
With the cats well if you find that's the problem it is my opinion you should gut them and flash your ECU and get the most benefit from the money. You can add performance cats in the Secondary's place later on. You will give the Maserati an entirely different sound this way. When it barks it will sound much more menacing. You can buy a camera and go through the top and bottom bungs for the O2s to check them. Honestly I have heard of this type of problem before with a different make of vehicle, but I still have to research it to see if the Maserati has the same type of regulator for the fuel pumps. I'm not totally sure that it does. In my opinion there are only a couple of reasons to get mis-fires in every cylinder like you have. Fuel delivery was just one, and it's why I wanted to know what the fuel pressure is. Though a lot of people don't like the computerized systems in the cars now days, I have to admit that I do enjoy the systems. Like for instance the Crank Position Sensor and/or the Cam Position sensors that feed the information to the ECU and tells it the crank/cam position for things such as firing order, fuel injection order/pressure, timing advance/retard and things that we used to dial in by re-jetting/tuning carburetors, or turning distributors. The bad thing is that if you get caught behind the technological power curve for the vehicles you will be spinning your wheels on mis-diagnosing a problem. I had a friend bring me his Mercedes about two weeks ago for this reason. His mechanic was convinced his stalling problems was a fuel pump issue. His rationale was when the car was stalling the fuel pump wasn't vibrating any longer and there wasn't any check engine lights. My friend was literally pulling his hair out because the car continued to do this regardless of what they were doing. What I tried to tell him at a wedding one day was that the systems are all connected. That if for instance the CPS was malfunctioning it would shut down all the other systems involved because essentially the car would not believe it was running. After weeks of this he finally brought me his car. Both he and the mechanic had different ideas. He was going to get rid of the car but gave it to me before he did. After an hour and about $100 part he never had the problem again. It was indeed the CPS sensor which doesn't always show by the check engine light. I will try to get on more often to check the thread to see if I can offer suggestions, someone else I hope is following is Dave. He's quite handy with a wrench himself, and has quite the sense of humor when talking about these issues. Larry (Lorenz) is a huge resource at times as well. If nothing more I can tell you this forum is one of the best for people helping you in your issues like they were their own. It's not always an exact science because we cannot put our hands on your car and hear what's happening like you can but we can try to save you as much as possible. For now, have a great holiday.....

craig-waterman.com
Craig is online now  
post #9 of 122 Old 11-29-2013, 05:06 PM
Super Moderator

InnerCircle
 
lcdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LIttleton, CO
Maserati Life Posts: 2,852
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig View Post
I agree with Travis and I think the chances of all of your coils mis-firing are very slim though Lorenz is correct there is great technology available to diagnose coil problems. Sometimes I really wish I lived close to some of you guys, like Tubber's issues, though some of them are complex, I have a heart for saving money and not seeing someone hand over their life savings to fix these cars. You'll have to forgive me for not logging on as often as I used to. I have completely lost my mind over this Jeep Wrangler I am building. I painted it more times then I would like to admit because I'm adding something I wanted or dumb stuff like that. I clear coated all of the "5.7 liter" decals into the paint and now I decided to pull the motor, and put in a built 383, so I had to put 6.2 liter decals on it and clear coat them in. The interior I ordered all Dakota Digital instrument gauges for the dash so the entire dash will be Digital and it will be blue in color. My point to this is because I am so focused on this I rarely have to time to get on here to problem solve with you guys.
With the cats well if you find that's the problem it is my opinion you should gut them and flash your ECU and get the most benefit from the money. You can add performance cats in the Secondary's place later on. You will give the Maserati an entirely different sound this way. When it barks it will sound much more menacing. You can buy a camera and go through the top and bottom bungs for the O2s to check them. Honestly I have heard of this type of problem before with a different make of vehicle, but I still have to research it to see if the Maserati has the same type of regulator for the fuel pumps. I'm not totally sure that it does. In my opinion there are only a couple of reasons to get mis-fires in every cylinder like you have. Fuel delivery was just one, and it's why I wanted to know what the fuel pressure is. Though a lot of people don't like the computerized systems in the cars now days, I have to admit that I do enjoy the systems. Like for instance the Crank Position Sensor and/or the Cam Position sensors that feed the information to the ECU and tells it the crank/cam position for things such as firing order, fuel injection order/pressure, timing advance/retard and things that we used to dial in by re-jetting/tuning carburetors, or turning distributors. The bad thing is that if you get caught behind the technological power curve for the vehicles you will be spinning your wheels on mis-diagnosing a problem. I had a friend bring me his Mercedes about two weeks ago for this reason. His mechanic was convinced his stalling problems was a fuel pump issue. His rationale was when the car was stalling the fuel pump wasn't vibrating any longer and there wasn't any check engine lights. My friend was literally pulling his hair out because the car continued to do this regardless of what they were doing. What I tried to tell him at a wedding one day was that the systems are all connected. That if for instance the CPS was malfunctioning it would shut down all the other systems involved because essentially the car would not believe it was running. After weeks of this he finally brought me his car. Both he and the mechanic had different ideas. He was going to get rid of the car but gave it to me before he did. After an hour and about $100 part he never had the problem again. It was indeed the CPS sensor which doesn't always show by the check engine light. I will try to get on more often to check the thread to see if I can offer suggestions, someone else I hope is following is Dave. He's quite handy with a wrench himself, and has quite the sense of humor when talking about these issues. Larry (Lorenz) is a huge resource at times as well. If nothing more I can tell you this forum is one of the best for people helping you in your issues like they were their own. It's not always an exact science because we cannot put our hands on your car and hear what's happening like you can but we can try to save you as much as possible. For now, have a great holiday.....
So you drag me into this after a MASSIVE thread hijack

Well, This is definitely a tough problem over the internet. Ecarca, I think you have a central problem. The cats, fuel delivery, and ignition are fairly separated left and right. It seems that you have a command issue. Whether it's the command itself (ECU) or a sensor telling the the ECU to do odd things is what needs to be figured out. Crank position could be it (among several other sensors) or the ECU itself. If you can get your hands on some ECU scanning HW/SW you could check mode 6 and live data logging. That should point you in the right direction. You can do this through the OBD port. What you need to know is what is failing first. Once one part is reporting a fault condition, the ECU will not run that sensor and that can cause other running issues that then report a fault condition. It's a cascade effect. You will chase your tail until you find the first part faulting.

I think checking the free and easy stuff is still a good idea. Cats for one. The WB O2 sensors can be checked with Torque on a smartphone if you have an ELM327. Your just looking to make sure their output is reasonable and not faulting. Also, check your grounds. The workshop manual lists them and gives pictures of their locations. I'll try ti give it some more thought.

Dave
2006 Coupe CC Blu Nettuno Vintage with Forgestar wheels, FD: DBWEM & springs , BMC filter, SuperSprint De-Cat, custom cat delete headers, custom x-pipe with 100cell race cats, RRP valves, G&S Exclusive Granturismo front bumper
lcdave is online now  
post #10 of 122 Old 11-29-2013, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
 
ecarca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Maserati Life Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisJ View Post
No need to guess if you think it is the cats. Just ask the dealer to do a visual inspection of the precats using a boroscope.
They said they did it and cats are good. I was not there to see if they really took down the exhaust...

2005 GranSport
ecarca is offline  
post #11 of 122 Old 11-29-2013, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
 
ecarca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Maserati Life Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig View Post
I agree with Travis and I think the chances of all of your coils mis-firing are very slim though Lorenz is correct there is great technology available to diagnose coil problems. Sometimes I really wish I lived close to some of you guys, like Tubber's issues, though some of them are complex, I have a heart for saving money and not seeing someone hand over their life savings to fix these cars. You'll have to forgive me for not logging on as often as I used to. I have completely lost my mind over this Jeep Wrangler I am building. I painted it more times then I would like to admit because I'm adding something I wanted or dumb stuff like that. I clear coated all of the "5.7 liter" decals into the paint and now I decided to pull the motor, and put in a built 383, so I had to put 6.2 liter decals on it and clear coat them in. The interior I ordered all Dakota Digital instrument gauges for the dash so the entire dash will be Digital and it will be blue in color. My point to this is because I am so focused on this I rarely have to time to get on here to problem solve with you guys.
With the cats well if you find that's the problem it is my opinion you should gut them and flash your ECU and get the most benefit from the money. You can add performance cats in the Secondary's place later on. You will give the Maserati an entirely different sound this way. When it barks it will sound much more menacing. You can buy a camera and go through the top and bottom bungs for the O2s to check them. Honestly I have heard of this type of problem before with a different make of vehicle, but I still have to research it to see if the Maserati has the same type of regulator for the fuel pumps. I'm not totally sure that it does. In my opinion there are only a couple of reasons to get mis-fires in every cylinder like you have. Fuel delivery was just one, and it's why I wanted to know what the fuel pressure is. Though a lot of people don't like the computerized systems in the cars now days, I have to admit that I do enjoy the systems. Like for instance the Crank Position Sensor and/or the Cam Position sensors that feed the information to the ECU and tells it the crank/cam position for things such as firing order, fuel injection order/pressure, timing advance/retard and things that we used to dial in by re-jetting/tuning carburetors, or turning distributors. The bad thing is that if you get caught behind the technological power curve for the vehicles you will be spinning your wheels on mis-diagnosing a problem. I had a friend bring me his Mercedes about two weeks ago for this reason. His mechanic was convinced his stalling problems was a fuel pump issue. His rationale was when the car was stalling the fuel pump wasn't vibrating any longer and there wasn't any check engine lights. My friend was literally pulling his hair out because the car continued to do this regardless of what they were doing. What I tried to tell him at a wedding one day was that the systems are all connected. That if for instance the CPS was malfunctioning it would shut down all the other systems involved because essentially the car would not believe it was running. After weeks of this he finally brought me his car. Both he and the mechanic had different ideas. He was going to get rid of the car but gave it to me before he did. After an hour and about $100 part he never had the problem again. It was indeed the CPS sensor which doesn't always show by the check engine light. I will try to get on more often to check the thread to see if I can offer suggestions, someone else I hope is following is Dave. He's quite handy with a wrench himself, and has quite the sense of humor when talking about these issues. Larry (Lorenz) is a huge resource at times as well. If nothing more I can tell you this forum is one of the best for people helping you in your issues like they were their own. It's not always an exact science because we cannot put our hands on your car and hear what's happening like you can but we can try to save you as much as possible. For now, have a great holiday.....
Thanks Craig
Well holidays will start on December 20th for me, getting back to Europe for Christmas to see my family. I haven't seen them except on Skype for a year and a half so it won't be that bad.
I am quite a big user of car forums and I know the power of it in terms of helping each other, which is why I am also trying to document my problems as much as I can in order to help someone that will run through the same problem tomorrow or in the next years.
I am not very familiar with the platform since I purchased the car a month ago but I am not too bad technically speaking so I'm also doing my best to pinpoint the problem. It's great there are guys like you because I noticed that there could be a bit less savvy people than on lower hand platforms. I am also quite price sensitive and into value for money so I tend to favor DYI solutions as well.

Thanks for still getting on the forums. That 6.2 is not too bad My father has it in his 300C SRT8. It's not a sports car but it's still fast and I enjoy driving it when I land in Europe
He used to have the 5.7 as well, so even though it is not the same car, I am well aware of the difference between these 2 power plants
I got him a little present last time I got back: the diablo sport and he loved it. We went for a road trip in the US for holidays last year, that's when I got hime the K&N intake kit, he also loves it These are small suggestions for your build

2005 GranSport
ecarca is offline  
post #12 of 122 Old 11-29-2013, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
 
ecarca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Maserati Life Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcdave View Post
So you drag me into this after a MASSIVE thread hijack

Well, This is definitely a tough problem over the internet. Ecarca, I think you have a central problem. The cats, fuel delivery, and ignition are fairly separated left and right. It seems that you have a command issue. Whether it's the command itself (ECU) or a sensor telling the the ECU to do odd things is what needs to be figured out. Crank position could be it (among several other sensors) or the ECU itself. If you can get your hands on some ECU scanning HW/SW you could check mode 6 and live data logging. That should point you in the right direction. You can do this through the OBD port. What you need to know is what is failing first. Once one part is reporting a fault condition, the ECU will not run that sensor and that can cause other running issues that then report a fault condition. It's a cascade effect. You will chase your tail until you find the first part faulting.

I think checking the free and easy stuff is still a good idea. Cats for one. The WB O2 sensors can be checked with Torque on a smartphone if you have an ELM327. Your just looking to make sure their output is reasonable and not faulting. Also, check your grounds. The workshop manual lists them and gives pictures of their locations. I'll try ti give it some more thought.
Which is good, I have an EML 327 and I have torque as well as OBD scope
I read a couple of troubleshoot procedures on other platforms and it seems the code I have always "cascade" to the O2…. since there was no other code before that was in their list. If I have extra time this week-end, I'll dig into the O2 output to see if it's getting wild or not… I hope it won't be much more complicated than that but future will tell.

2005 GranSport
ecarca is offline  
post #13 of 122 Old 11-29-2013, 08:41 PM
Moderator
 
TravisJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Maserati Life Posts: 5,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecarca View Post
They said they did it and cats are good. I was not there to see if they really took down the exhaust...
The exhaust stays in place for a pre-cat inspection. They just put a boroscope through the O2 sensor bung and look. If the shop already inspected the cats and said they were fine, why don't you believe them?

https://www.instagram.com/revtravis/

(SOLD) 2004 Coupe Cambiocorsa, Rosso Mondiale/Nero
Larini mufflers & X-pipe, Sport cats, FD sport springs, FD DBWEM, BMC air filter, FD brake pads
TravisJ is offline  
post #14 of 122 Old 11-30-2013, 04:54 AM
Supporting Member

InnerCircle
 
Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Maserati Life Posts: 2,283
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 231 Post(s)
@Dave Lol sorry about that I feel bad sometimes when I don't have time to get on and try to help out, thus the digression and explaination. I will curve that next time....

craig-waterman.com
Craig is online now  
post #15 of 122 Old 11-30-2013, 05:25 AM
Super Moderator

InnerCircle
 
lcdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LIttleton, CO
Maserati Life Posts: 2,852
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
All for the MaseratiLife family

Dave
2006 Coupe CC Blu Nettuno Vintage with Forgestar wheels, FD: DBWEM & springs , BMC filter, SuperSprint De-Cat, custom cat delete headers, custom x-pipe with 100cell race cats, RRP valves, G&S Exclusive Granturismo front bumper
lcdave is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Maserati Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome