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post #1 of 77 Old 03-31-2013, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
 
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Supercharger Kit

Every single one of my friends have moved on to GT-R's and I do not want to be one of them. I enjoy being different! But please help me at least stay up with them :P I patiently await Formula Dynamics forced induction options for the 4.2L engine hopefully making the 650+ hp crank for no more than the $15k as previously discussed. This engine deserves to go faster!

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post #2 of 77 Old 03-31-2013, 12:36 PM
 
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More Power for my GT

I'm in the same boat. Been really eyeing the GTR supersilver also but love my QP. So sad. I know they have superchargers for the 4.7.(around 30K) But I would think there are a lot of 4.2 owners with the F1 that would love one (maybe)
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post #3 of 77 Old 03-31-2013, 03:39 PM
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I'm having Twin superchargers or possibly Twin turbos installed in my GS over the summer. superchargers should put me at 650 and TT's more around 750. engine will be built and i'm gonna beef up the tranny a little too. I have a thread on here about it but it's kind of hit a pause due to the shop's schedule

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post #4 of 77 Old 04-01-2013, 01:59 AM
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[QUOTE=Silex840;183156I patiently await Formula Dynamics forced induction options for the 4.2L engine hopefully making the 650+ hp crank for no more than the $15k as previously discussed. This engine deserves to go faster![/QUOTE]
Is FD resurrecting that project?

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Originally Posted by colekatie View Post
I'm in the same boat. Been really eyeing the GTR supersilver also but love my QP. So sad. I know they have superchargers for the 4.7.(around 30K) But I would think there are a lot of 4.2 owners with the F1 that would love one (maybe)
There is at least one company that was selling a SC kit for the 4.2. Similar price. It was running around $30K.

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I'm having Twin superchargers or possibly Twin turbos installed in my GS over the summer. superchargers should put me at 650 and TT's more around 750. engine will be built and i'm gonna beef up the tranny a little too. I have a thread on here about it but it's kind of hit a pause due to the shop's schedule
I applaud you for taking this on. The hardest part will be the transmission. These clutches have a hard time with 400hp, I can't imagine clutch life with a 650 hp engine. What is your guess? Maybe 5K miles at most in between clutch changes?

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post #5 of 77 Old 04-01-2013, 03:23 AM
 
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Is it the clutches or the F1 system that has trouble and would need to be upgraded?

I too am wondering where more power could be purchased. Love my car - just want to make it go faster.

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post #6 of 77 Old 04-01-2013, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisJ View Post
These clutches have a hard time with 400hp, I can't imagine clutch life with a 650 hp engine. What is your guess? Maybe 5K miles at most in between clutch changes?
It seems to me that the clutch issue is mostly at lower power settings/engine speeds. Once the engine is in the power band, there doesn't seem to much problem. Am I missing something? The torque applied to the transmission however, will likely need to be sorted out. I have no idea if it will handle that much more torque.

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post #7 of 77 Old 04-01-2013, 04:21 AM
 
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How many hp do the Trofeo cars produce? I believe they are in that ballpark and that the remainder of the power train is the same. Should be no need to beef up anything.....except your boxers.

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post #8 of 77 Old 04-01-2013, 07:04 AM
 
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How many hp do the Trofeo cars produce? I believe they are in that ballpark and that the remainder of the power train is the same. Should be no need to beef up anything.....except your boxers.
Trofeos were/are only about 5% more powerful than a stock 4200 I think. Something like 420bhp.

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post #9 of 77 Old 04-01-2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcdave View Post
It seems to me that the clutch issue is mostly at lower power settings/engine speeds. Once the engine is in the power band, there doesn't seem to much problem. Am I missing something? The torque applied to the transmission however, will likely need to be sorted out. I have no idea if it will handle that much more torque.
Clutches are worn by heat and slipping. Lots of extra HP would create more of both. The reason clutches are worn the most at lower speeds is because that is where the most slipping happens. More power would make slipping even worse.

The problem with "upgraded" clutches is that we have yet to see someone pull it off. As you know, there are many threads on new clutch material attempts for F1 transmission cars and not a single report of success.

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post #10 of 77 Old 04-02-2013, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisJ View Post
Clutches are worn by heat and slipping. Lots of extra HP would create more of both. The reason clutches are worn the most at lower speeds is because that is where the most slipping happens. More power would make slipping even worse.

The problem with "upgraded" clutches is that we have yet to see someone pull it off. As you know, there are many threads on new clutch material attempts for F1 transmission cars and not a single report of success.
I understand what causes clutches to wear and my point was more that the slipping would normally occur more at lower engine speeds before the torque has built up either boosted or not. Yes, if you hammer it off the line and try to get engagement at 3000rpm, you would have more torque applied and therefore more difficulty ending the slipping that started when the clutch is released. The Maserati does not slip at max torque now, the question is; what is the maximum torque the clutch will allow before slipping. Horse power has little to do with this. It's only a time component for measuring work. That's why motorcycles can have lots of HP and still use tiny little multi-plate clutches: they only produce so much torque, and of that, only so much can be applied to the ground. Increase the torque too much by fitting bigger tires and longer swing-arms and find out how strong that clutch is. Torque is what causes clutches to slip and transmissions to break. That's why they rate them for torque and not HP. I stole some dyno charts off the internet that show down to the typical rpm 's the clutch engages.
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post #11 of 77 Old 04-02-2013, 03:17 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colekatie View Post
I'm in the same boat. Been really eyeing the GTR supersilver also but love my QP. So sad. I know they have superchargers for the 4.7.(around 30K) But I would think there are a lot of 4.2 owners with the F1 that would love one (maybe)
Knowing other Mas owners are in the same boat makes me not feel alone in this decision.

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Originally Posted by SMU View Post
I'm having Twin superchargers or possibly Twin turbos installed in my GS over the summer. superchargers should put me at 650 and TT's more around 750. engine will be built and i'm gonna beef up the tranny a little too. I have a thread on here about it but it's kind of hit a pause due to the shop's schedule
What is the link to this project? I want to subscribe as I am very curious on the TT project side of things!

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post #12 of 77 Old 04-02-2013, 06:35 AM
 
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Do you think this will really happen?
For the 4200/GS the numbers made and current value, the youngest will be 6 years old, the cost of the conversion will be as much as the car is worth, certainly for the earlier ones.
Just can't see it being commercially viable?

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post #13 of 77 Old 04-02-2013, 02:44 PM
 
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Like most modifications---it is not an investment. Nobody buys a supercharger thinking that it is adding value to their car, so the relative cost of the conversion to the value of the car is immaterial. The cost of the conversion must be related to the value that the potential buyer places on the results - a faster Maserati 4200. If it is worth $15k or $30k for that matter for the buyer to have a 4200 that can keep up with his GTR buddies, then they will be a buyer.

The commercial viability of the project would then be a function of the cost to research, design, test, manufacture the kit and the number of buyers who value the kit enough to purchase it at a certain price point. If there are enough buyers to recoup the investment then it is commercially viable. Nobody is suggesting that a maker is going to be supporting themselves on these kits but so long as they don't lose money, a shop like FD would add this to their bag of tricks. They make a bit of profit and gain notoriety for having done something few others have accomplished.

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post #14 of 77 Old 04-02-2013, 03:07 PM
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If keeping up with GTRs is the goal, I think a GranTurismo is a much better starting point. Why not start with that platform and eliminate the need to wrestle with the F1 system?

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post #15 of 77 Old 04-02-2013, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silex840 View Post

What is the link to this project? I want to subscribe as I am very curious on the TT project side of things!
It's on page 2 i believe. as "TT GS build thread" or "Here We go...."

It will definitely be roughly 35-40k but i'm trying to make this car into the ultimate sleeper and one that i can keep forever. I already have extremely rare paint (1 of 14 US) and i'm just trying to add to that. and most likely underground racing will be building it so hopefully they make a video

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